Wednesday, October 17, 2007

By Paul Wagenseil
AP

DNA co-discoverer and Nobel Prize winner James D. Watson in June 2007.

One of the world's most eminent scientists has created a racial firestorm in Britain.

James D. Watson, 79, co-discoverer of the DNA helix and winner of the 1962 Nobel Prize in medicine, told the Sunday Times of London that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas all the testing says not really."

He recognized that the prevailing belief was that all human groups are equal, but that "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true."


Acknowledging that the issue was a "hot potato," the lifelong Democrat and avowed secular humanist nonetheless said his beliefs were not an excuse to discriminate against blacks.

"There are many people of color who are very talented," said Watson, "but don't promote them when they haven't succeeded at the lower level."
Related

He told the interviewer, a former student of his, that he had recently inaugurated a DNA learning center near Harlem, and would like to have more black researchers at his lab, "but there's no one to recruit."

Steven Rose, a professor of biological sciences at the Open University in Britain, was quick to dismiss Watson's comments.

"This is Watson at his most scandalous, " Rose told the Times of London. "If he knew the literature in the subject, he would know he was out of his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically."

Watson is the former director and current chancellor of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory biological-research institution on New York's Long Island, and both admired and infamous for bluntly speaking his mind.

In a British television documentary in 2003, Watson advised eliminating low intelligence through gene therapy.

"If you are really stupid, I would call that a disease," said Watson, according to New Scientist magazine. "The lower 10 percent who really have difficulty, even in elementary school, what's the cause of it?

"A lot of people would like to say, 'Well, poverty, things like that.' It probably isn't," he added. "So I'd like to get rid of that, to help the lower 10 percent."

He also touched upon sexual attraction in the same TV program.

"People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty," Watson said. "I think it would be great."

In 2000, he told a lecture audience at U.C. Berkeley that there was a correlation between a population's exposure to sunlight and its sex drive.

"That's why you have Latin lovers," Watson said, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. "You've never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient."

The notion that intelligence tests and other scientific evidence shows that racial groups differ in intelligence, at least statistically, is not a new one.

It last gained popular attention in 1994 with "The Bell Curve," a best-selling book written by Harvard psychologist Richard J. Herrnstein (who died before publication) and political scientist Charles Murray, which argued that intelligence was more important than socio-economic background or education in achieving success in American life.

The book does not explicitly ascribe a genetic, racial connection to intelligence, but Murray in his publicity tour to promote the book cited studies that human intelligence could be ranked by ancestry, with East Asians and European Jews leading the way.

That view was more clearly stated in 1995 by British-Canadian psychologist J. Philippe Rushton, whose "Race, Evolution and Behavior: A Life History Perspective" quantified dozens of differences between blacks, whites and Asians.

In the 1970s, electronics pioneer William Shockley, who won the 1956 Nobel Prize in physics, said that the human race would suffer as less intelligent people outbred more intelligent ones, with the greatest damage to occur in the black American population.

Most sociologists, geneticists and psychologists reject the notion of racial differences in intelligence, pointing out that economic and social factors clearly influence IQ test scores.

The issue of race itself is scientifically controversial, with some arguing that it is a meaningless term and others saying that consistent traits occur among individuals of shared ancestry.

Watson is currently in Britain promoting his just-published new volume of memoirs, "Avoid Boring People: Lessons From a Life in Science."

"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically," he writes. "Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."

FOXNews.com - DNA Discoverer: Blacks Less Intelligent Than Whites - Science News | Current Articles (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,302836,00.html)


Racist mofo :(

Racist mofo
..Maybe. Maybe not..

..We can argue with statistics in every situation. People who share my skin color have proved to me (atleast in this country) that intelligence isn't their primary concern. They plan on trying to increase their socio-economic influence..

..Whose fault is it? Ours and the media's. The media indirectly "tells" us what we should aspire to be. It tells us what we should find to be desirable. Why is it that a black intellectual (Steve Urkel for those who remember him) must be clumsy and socially awkward - and this is in a black television show, people. Those of the opposite skin color find far more examples of prominent and intellectual characters for them to idolize. The gangsta' lifestyle/persona doesn't appeal to them. It appeals to the demographic which it's targeting. Mine..

..With this, is it any wonder why they find my people to be [statistically] less intelligent? I can't argue it..

~1

lmao damn dat niggah a racist

An example of what Damien was talking about^.

@I'm great^^Doing your bit to prove black peoples intelligence I see.


I was reaing an article on him the week before he apparantly said that black people were less intelligent and he came accross as a top bloke. He's said some things in the past that have been misquoted, and could have been said with a little more tact (case in point was him saying that mothers should be able to abort their babies if they wanted to if a 'gay' gene was discovered). The fact that he is old excuses his lack of tact somewhat, and I'm sure he didn't just say 'black people are less intelligent' striaght up. Remember that he has a nobel prize for the discovery of DNA, so anything he does say probably has some weight behind it.

I'm in no way condoning what he said, but all too often people get burned at the stake by a media witchhunt for a statement they said that has been twisted and misquoted until they look like the second coming of Pol Pot.

Racist or not the man is a genius... You know him and crick... I don't remember if it was him or crick but one of them was on clear liquid when they found the double helix..
Crick has my respect as a scientist.. He is perhaps one of the most brilliant people alive. Watson I havent heard much from but judging from this comment I'm sure I will in the future....

Bullshit...anyway,

DNA pioneer apologises over race row.

James Randerson and Claire Truscott
Thursday October 18, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


The DNA pioneer James Watson today apologised "unreservedly" for his apparent claim that black people are less intelligent than whites.
"I am mortified about what has happened," he told a group of scientists and journalists at the launch of his new book, Avoid Boring People, at the Royal Society in London.

"I can certainly understand why people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways they have."

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologise unreservedly.

"That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief."

Prof Watson attracted a deluge of criticism for his comments in a Sunday Times interview, reportedly saying he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really".

He was quoted as saying he hoped everyone was equal, but that "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true".

Britain's most senior black MP, the skills minister, David Lammy, said the 79-year-old scientist's comments were "deeply offensive" and would "succeed only in providing oxygen for the BNP".

"It is a shame that a man with a record of scientific distinction should see his work overshadowed by his own irrational prejudices," Mr Lammy said.

"It is no surprise to me that the scientific community has condemned this outburst, and I think people will recognise these comments for what they are."

The London's mayor, Ken Livingstone, also condemned the comments, calling them "racist propaganda masquerading as scientific fact".

"His offensive and grossly inaccurate comments will no doubt be seized upon by extreme right groups to fuel their campaigns of hatred," he said. "Such views are not welcome in a city like London."

In his statement today, Prof Watson said science should not be afraid of tackling controversial issues.

"Science is no stranger to controversy and I am not one to shy away from tackling issues, however, difficult they might prove to be. I have had my share of controversy, as many of you know," he added.

"I have always fiercely defended the position that we should base our view of the world on the state of our knowledge, on fact, and not on what we think it should be.

"This is why I believe passionately in genetics - for it will lead us to answers to many of the big and difficult questions that have troubled people for hundreds, if not thousands, of years."

The eminent geneticist made his name as one half of science's most famous double act when he and Francis Crick worked out the now famous double helix structure for DNA - a discovery for which they won the Nobel prize in 1962.

Prof Watson's statement did not clarify what his views on the issue of race and intelligence are, but he hinted that he had been misquoted.

"I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said," the statement said.

The professor had been due to speak at the Science museum in London tomorrow, but its directors called off the event last night after his comments were made public.

A spokesman said Prof Watson had "gone beyond the point of acceptable debate".

Some scientists have voiced anger at the museum's decision. "It's outrageous to ban someone based on newspaper reports of their views," Colin Blakemore, a professor of Neuroscience at the University of Oxford, said.

"Jim Watson is well known for being provocative and politically incorrect. But it would be a sad world if such a distinguished scientist was silenced because of his more unpalatable views."

Prof Watson has regularly courted controversy, reportedly saying that a woman should have the right to abort her child if tests were able to determine that it would be homosexual.

He has also suggested a link between skin colour and sex drive, proposing that black people have higher libidos, and claimed beauty could be genetically manufactured.

"People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty," he said. "I think it would be great."

Born in Chicago, he studied in the US and Denmark before moving to Cambridge University, where he met Crick while a student in 1951.


http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/research/story/0,,2193992,00.html

lol that made me laugh why idk but that fool just a smart racist nothing more nothing less

Lmfao..i read the title and started laughing :( blunt and to the point..i think its horseshit though..there are alot of dumb fucks in the world of every race

"In the 1970s, electronics pioneer William Shockley, who won the 1956 Nobel Prize in physics, said that the human race would suffer as less intelligent people outbred more intelligent ones, with the greatest damage to occur in the black American population."


The movie "Idiocracy" ... check it out sometime... it's a movie about exactly that.

..Maybe. Maybe not..

..We can argue with statistics in every situation. People who share my skin color have proved to me (atleast in this country) that intelligence isn't their primary concern. They plan on trying to increase their socio-economic influence..

..Whose fault is it? Ours and the media's. The media indirectly "tells" us what we should aspire to be. It tells us what we should find to be desirable. Why is it that a black intellectual (Steve Urkel for those who remember him) must be clumsy and socially awkward - and this is in a black television show, people. Those of the opposite skin color find far more examples of prominent and intellectual characters for them to idolize. The gangsta' lifestyle/persona doesn't appeal to them. It appeals to the demographic which it's targeting. Mine..

..With this, is it any wonder why they find my people to be [statistically] less intelligent? I can't argue it..

~1

i disagree take black people in any african country. If you gave them the chance of a free education like we do in our country i can guarentee you that they will be more intelligent then any other people giving the chance .
the majority of african children want to go to school and educate themselves
they would thrive to have the lifestyle we have. but you cannot say the same about us . The people in this country have got it too easy they are spoilt with there choices. all i am saying is under the right education initiative i think black people would outsmart us.

.

..I see your point, but as you said, this would hold true IF we took people from a select and localized pool; in this case, Africans. What was originally being said was that we are “less intelligent” on a statistical basis, though. They aren’t taking into consideration the possibility of including a demographic who is deprived an opportunity..

..We black people have the same potential as anyone else, but the majority of us are not taking advantage of the means to become more intelligent. Whether it’s because of social conditioning or cultural differences, the statistics won’t show bias..

~1

I don't think intelligence is really an effective measure.

This was a hot topic a while ago in this country, where there was talk of removing black pupils from classrooms and teaching all black pupils together seperately from every other pupil of any ethnicity.

I really don't think skin colour has any direct affect on intelligence genetically. I think it's more of a case of the "black lifestyle" which affects intelligence, or more likely their drive to learn or perform. The same way a Japanese lifestyle affects suicide rates.

Still, I think this is useless information, since we can't make assumptions on someones intelligence from their appearance when we're basing it on mass statistics.

On another note: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/3517171.stm



(We all know those Asians are smarter than the lot of us.)

.

..You’re right. The lifestyle idea is what I alluded to in my first response. The gangsta’ persona is what have side-tracked the black populous here over the years. This is what’s keeping us from reaching our full potential. But when I think of lifestyle, I keep in mind the conditioning of that particular sect. The Japanese suicide rate, I feel, is directly correlated to the work ethic and social pressures that are placed on them thanks to that particular social conditioning..

(We all know those Asians are smarter than the lot of us.)

..So true. I believe that has to do with their incomprehensible work ethic..

~1

i disagree take black people in any african country. If you gave them the chance of a free education like we do in our country i can guarentee you that they will be more intelligent then any other people giving the chance .

the majority of african children want to go to school and educate themselves
they would thrive to have the lifestyle we have. but you cannot say the same about us . The people in this country have got it too easy they are spoilt with there choices. all i am saying is under the right education initiative i think black people would outsmart us.

I probably would have said the exact same thing if you didn't post it, however, if those African children had the same lifestyle, they would gain more distractions. Therefore, it's hard to make a fair comparison. Who knows those kids may drink for 12 hours and then play video games for the remainder like us. :)

But yeah, we are fucking LAZY ! :D

i disagree take black people in any african country. If you gave them the chance of a free education like we do in our country i can guarentee you that they will be more intelligent then any other people giving the chance .
the majority of african children want to go to school and educate themselves
they would thrive to have the lifestyle we have. but you cannot say the same about us . The people in this country have got it too easy they are spoilt with there choices. all i am saying is under the right education initiative i think black people would outsmart us.

Sorry mate, I cannot let that slide. How in your wildest dreams could you possibly imagine that you're in a position to 'guarantee' an African child with a western education will be more intelligent than 'any other people'?

How can you guarantee that? You can't. Your claim is as ridiculous as the guy who says black people are less intelligent than other people.

Also, the guy is claiming the discrepancy in the levels of intelligence of racial groups is genetic. You therefore don't have to pluck a baby from Africa and send them to a Western school and hand them a Western lifestyle, you need only look at black people born into Western societies and compare them to other racial groups in the same society.

There's no need to defend black people against this guy's claim. The burden of proof rests with him. Until he fronts up authentic evidence, everyone can comfortably laugh at him. The fact he's a nobel prize winner means nothing. Without genuine evidence, his claim is just a hypothesis. If he isn't going to test the hypothesis himself, he is best ignored.

He was apparently misquoted so relax.

Sorry mate, I cannot let that slide. How in your wildest dreams could you possibly imagine that you're in a position to 'guarantee' an African child with a western education will be more intelligent than 'any other people'?

How can you guarantee that? You can't. Your claim is as ridiculous as the guy who says black people are less intelligent than other people.

Also, the guy is claiming the discrepancy in the levels of intelligence of racial groups is genetic. You therefore don't have to pluck a baby from Africa and send them to a Western school and hand them a Western lifestyle, you need only look at black people born into Western societies and compare them to other racial groups in the same society.

There's no need to defend black people against this guy's claim. The burden of proof rests with him. Until he fronts up authentic evidence, everyone can comfortably laugh at him. The fact he's a nobel prize winner means nothing. Without genuine evidence, his claim is just a hypothesis. If he isn't going to test the hypothesis himself, he is best ignored.
it aint ridiculous africans want it more then we do . i guarentee you they would try to suceed more then we would .

and since theres more white people in america or uk its unfair to start talking about how black people are less intelligent.

lets start comparing if we give each white person and black person the same life standards and education .

africans or any people in third world countries would thrive on the opportunities we have . its just as simple as that

I had a feelin George W. was black.

Fall back^



And eh...why do (SOME) white people alwayes trying to compare themselves with black people i dont get it?


Why not asians or chinese

i don't even gotta read any posts or nothing but the title to tell you.... BULLSHIIITTTT

Its the other way around. Thats why they're keeping us down......

By Paul Wagenseil

a discovery by a cracka?

go figure.

Shut the fuck up.

Shut the fuck up.

shut your bitch ass up

Haha we were talking about this in class, he apoligised and all that.

I think the great Watson might've been drinking a little bit...

smh.......

who is better in bed though, blacks or whites........ those white boys ain't no competition.

^^ on the contrary, I am a damn god

fucking is one of the two things I'm any good at

^haha thats how we do, you black or white?

white

which is why the second thing I'm good at is making wildly inappropriate comments in racial situations

seriously though, being from the south, I do a lot of fuckin, and I'd like to think I've picked up a few tricks along the way

Maybe I missread... But I don't think he actually inferred black GENES are intellectually inferior? Are people just putting his statements about blacks in general together with the fact he's done some stuff in the DNA feild? Statistically blacks ARE less intelligent than whites - what do you expect? Statistically they don't have & haven't had the same education or resources as whites. Even if they have equal education in some areas today, they'll still feel the effects of discrimination form previous generations - dumber parents raise dumber children. You wouldn't expect them to be statistically equal until the education has been equal for a few generations... But anyway, I think people might just be grabbing the keywords 'black', 'dna', 'less intelligent' and making some assumptions about what he's actually saying... He could've worded it better though (or the media edited what he said unfairly), I'll give it that.

I thought the guy had proved it...then i read the article and basically it turns out that some guy set up a science lab somewhere and there were no intelligent black people who WANTED a job there in the immediate area.

how does that prove anything?

My father was a Nigerian from the Ibo tribe (pronounced ee-bo), he had a PhD in physics.

My eldest sister has a masters degree and knows several languages. She also speaks and writes English with better grammar than anyone I have ever met English college professors.

My other sister is a graphic artist who can manipulate any medium from charcoal to Photoshop. She even did art in MS Paint back in the Windows 3.1 days with 16 color graphics. All she needed to land a job was her portfolio.

One of my aunt's in england (and she's dark) has a a masters degree in artificial intelligence.

I have to male cousins who started college at the age of 16.

One of my uncles in england (dark too) is an IT manager.

I have programmed computers since I was 11, and in the whole course of my life I have only personally met one programmer that I would consider competition. I wouldn't say I was a wonder kid, but I used to draw schematics for fighter jets, tanks, cars, guns, etc. in elementary school. All of those diagrams were based on my own research.

All of this is just my family. Surely there are plenty more examples.

The Ibo tribe in Nigeria is known for having well educated black people.

This "scientist" is a racist fool. He isn't interested in the truth because there are no shortage of individuals of African decent who transcend their peers by a great degree and on a regular basis.

Furthermore, dark pigmentation is a cosmetic trait. What we identify as Black, Asian, White, etc, has little significance on a genetic scale.

i disagree take black people in any african country. If you gave them the chance of a free education like we do in our country i can guarentee you that they will be more intelligent then any other people giving the chance .
the majority of african children want to go to school and educate themselves
they would thrive to have the lifestyle we have. but you cannot say the same about us . The people in this country have got it too easy they are spoilt with there choices. all i am saying is under the right education initiative i think black people would outsmart us.

you cant distinguish one or another which race would be smarter under what circumstances, its all about the individual, their natural drive for knowledge and their skills in comprehension and attitude towards education, so what im saying is that black people can be smarter than white people, but white people can also be smarter than black people.

.

..You’re right. The lifestyle idea is what I alluded to in my first response. The gangsta’ persona is what have side-tracked the black populous here over the years. This is what’s keeping us from reaching our full potential. But when I think of lifestyle, I keep in mind the conditioning of that particular sect. The Japanese suicide rate, I feel, is directly correlated to the work ethic and social pressures that are placed on them thanks to that particular social conditioning..



..So true. I believe that has to do with their incomprehensible work ethic..

~1
Asians are not smarter than anyone else, I've known plenty of lazy dumb ones. They are the same as every other race.

I have noticed that immigrants tend to be smarter than most however, they are also harder working. If they were lazy stupid they would never had the motivation and resources to immigrate (except for the wealthy ones).

Regardless, most of the black people I know that have kids skipping grades are immigrants. I may be biased since both of my parents are immigrants, but that is what I see in this country.

Still, Americans are lazy and our culture is backwards. Those who immigrate take time to assimilated and absorb our lazy backwards nature.

That's sort of true about immigrants being more hardworking, i dunno about intelligence though. There's been a massive increase in number of Polish immigrants in this country over the past couple years, because they get working and housing benefits in Britain. A lot of people where made redundant from the factory I used to work in when they opened a new factory in Poland to make more jobs for the Polish. They get a lot of hate for "stealing jobs".

Unfortunately in the same way the stereotype of a Somalian or Kosovan immigrant is generally said to be lazy and criminal.



Also, one of my mates from school was Igbo. Not sure about his family but he was a lazy fucker, he had intelligence though.

Asians are not smarter than anyone else, I've known plenty of lazy dumb ones. They are the same as every other race
..This is true, but Feral and I weren't making the observation based solely on race. We were taking the social pressures into account and made that statement in comparison to other societies..

..I'm sure that you'll find your average, lazy Asian (compared to the average, lazy American), but how is that person perceived and compared by the standards of his/her own culture? That's the question..

~1

shut your bitch ass up

Witty retort.

goddamn, I remember a few years back, there was a group of REALLY stupid asians at my school

the bad kind of stupid where there is no help for them, because they'd already made the critical mistake of thinking anyone smarter than them was secretly a closet retard

I remember one choking on a peanut butter sandwich literally three times in one day, these kids were barely functional

blew away a lot of preconcieved notions I had, and taught me one thing: regardless of race or creed, the world is basically filled with dumbasses

^ Hahaha hard i had some stupid as fuck asians in my english class in my last year of school, they were funny and loved fighting but could barely complete 1 question in tests and exams, apart from math - i've never known an asian who isn't good at math.

.

..I see your point, but as you said, this would hold true IF we took people from a select and localized pool; in this case, Africans. What was originally being said was that we are “less intelligent” on a statistical basis, though. They aren’t taking into consideration the possibility of including a demographic who is deprived an opportunity..

..We black people have the same potential as anyone else, but the majority of us are not taking advantage of the means to become more intelligent. Whether it’s because of social conditioning or cultural differences, the statistics won’t show bias..

~1

I think you're forgetting that a select and localized pool would be African Americans. You only make up 10% of the United States population, which is only one country. Africa is a CONTINENT. Not to mention the many black people in Europe as well. African Americans were brought up in a country where they were considered inferior for all but 50 years. You guys are a minority in the Black population.

Just wanted to point that out. As far as what you said before, you're right. Some black people aren't interested in developing their intelligence. But then again, there's white people who are exactly the same way. You just don't see them in high places of power, outside of George Bush.

it aint ridiculous africans want it more then we do . i guarentee you they would try to suceed more then we would .

and since theres more white people in america or uk its unfair to start talking about how black people are less intelligent.

lets start comparing if we give each white person and black person the same life standards and education .

Preach.

My father was a Nigerian from the Ibo tribe (pronounced ee-bo), he had a PhD in physics.

My eldest sister has a masters degree and knows several languages. She also speaks and writes English with better grammar than anyone I have ever met English college professors.

My other sister is a graphic artist who can manipulate any medium from charcoal to Photoshop. She even did art in MS Paint back in the Windows 3.1 days with 16 color graphics. All she needed to land a job was her portfolio.

One of my aunt's in england (and she's dark) has a a masters degree in artificial intelligence.

I have to male cousins who started college at the age of 16.

One of my uncles in england (dark too) is an IT manager.

I have programmed computers since I was 11, and in the whole course of my life I have only personally met one programmer that I would consider competition. I wouldn't say I was a wonder kid, but I used to draw schematics for fighter jets, tanks, cars, guns, etc. in elementary school. All of those diagrams were based on my own research.

All of this is just my family. Surely there are plenty more examples.

The Ibo tribe in Nigeria is known for having well educated black people.

This "scientist" is a racist fool. He isn't interested in the truth because there are no shortage of individuals of African decent who transcend their peers by a great degree and on a regular basis.

Furthermore, dark pigmentation is a cosmetic trait. What we identify as Black, Asian, White, etc, has little significance on a genetic scale.

THANK YOU. Respect to the Igbo tribe, although I can't lie, lol, I don't get along too well with Nigerians. You guys are overshadowing the rest of the African population. WE'RE INTELLIGENT TOO!

^ Hahaha hard i had some stupid as fuck asians in my english class in my last year of school, they were funny and loved fighting but could barely complete 1 question in tests and exams, apart from math - i've never known an asian who isn't good at math.

The fact is, education is purely something that occurs from nurture, not nature. If you don't teach a man, he will not learn. Or at the very least, teach him HOW to learn, so he can teach himself. Intelligence won't matter if you don't acquire the knowledge to apply it. That Asian could have been smart as hell, but never went to class. How the fuck is he gonna know how to do any of that shit? Same argument for smart Asians. They're brought up being told that their education comes first, and treat it as such. In America, other things are put ahead.

The fact is, education is purely something that occurs from nurture, not nature. If you don't teach a man, he will not learn. Or at the very least, teach him HOW to learn, so he can teach himself. Intelligence won't matter if you don't acquire the knowledge to apply it. That Asian could have been smart as hell, but never went to class. How the fuck is he gonna know how to do any of that shit? Same argument for smart Asians. They're brought up being told that their education comes first, and treat it as such. In America, other things are put ahead.

REAL TALK.