Okay okay, in 1965. This is a crazy story, I've seen documentaries on History Channel about this just recently, and used to read about this when I was a kid wrapped up in "UFO & Paranormal" books. It's interesting to see the government is going to re-examine the case. Perhaps the documentary that aired a few weeks ago raised some eyebrows, so the US Gov't is going to squash this rumor before speculation gets out of hand.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,305687,00.html

NASA Agrees to Search for Files Over 1965 UFO Incident

Saturday, October 27, 2007



WASHINGTON — NASA has agreed to search its archives once again for documents on a 1965 UFO incident in Pennsylvania, a step the space agency fought in federal court.

The government has refused to open its files about what, if anything, moved across the sky and crashed in the woods near Kecksburg, Pa., 40 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.

Traffic was tied up in the area as curiosity seekers drove to the area, only to be kept away from the crash site by soldiers.

The Air Force's explanation for the unidentified flying object: a meteor or meteors.

"They could not find anything," one Air Force memo stated after a late-night search on Dec. 9, 1965. Several NASA employees also were reported to have been at the scene.

Eyewitnesses said a flatbed truck drove away a large object shaped like an acorn and about the size of a Volkswagen bus. A mock-up based on the descriptions of local residents sits behind the Kecksburg Volunteer Fire Department.

UFO enthusiasts refused to let the matter die and journalist Leslie Kean of New York City sued NASA four years ago for information.

"This is about the public's right to know," Kean said. "We would be doing this lawsuit regardless of whether UFO groups were interested in it or not. It's a freedom of information issue."

The agency has turned over several stacks of documents which Kean says are not responsive to the request, an argument that U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan agreed with.

In March, Sullivan rejected NASA's request to throw the case out of court, resulting in negotiations that led to the agency promising last week that it will conduct a more comprehensive search.

Kean said Friday that she sued NASA rather than the Army because the space agency a decade ago released some relevant documents on the case.


For more information on the Kecksburg UFO crash, for skeptics and believers both :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident
http://ufo-media.com/forum/125.html
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_401174.html
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_3_28/ai_n6090292/pg_2
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=4520



A first hand account of the crash.
http://www.rense.com/general43/isaw.htm



Wow, turns out Bryant Gumbel did a documentary on this some years back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kecksburg_UFO_incident

There's no such thing as UFO's.

I'm Sure There Are Madame...

I Seen A Documentary Recently Discussing The Term 'USO' Rather Than 'UFO' Due To Claims That They Come Out The Water... Same Documentary You Speak Of?...

There's no such thing as UFO's.

Yeah because you are omnipresent and omniscient in the whole universe.

An unidentified flying object is exactly what it is. To say they don't exist would be to say there are no flying "objects" which are yet to be identified.


You're an idiot, whoever said that.

Put it this way...in this whole universe which is about what 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000 miles big, lol, we can not be the only living life forms, as simple as that.

I'm Sure There Are Madame...

I Seen A Documentary Recently Discussing The Term 'USO' Rather Than 'UFO' Due To Claims That They Come Out The Water... Same Documentary You Speak Of?...



Unidentified Submerged Objects.

If you get the time to read up on them, it'll either make you a bigger skeptic or scare the hell out of you. These things follow Naval excercises, missile tests, and civilian ships.

There's been a lot of USO stuff going on up around Nova Scotia and the North Atlantic for years now.

Yea man they're watching us for sure aliens or the government perhaps both?
although the Nazi's did invent the idea of a flying saucer cause the americans
were cutting off their air fields and later on russia acquired these plans
and told everybody else that shit was gone so yea russians are watching us.

*puts on tin space hat*





TO THE OBSERVATORY!!!

Quiet Plumber, Before I Put Something Into Your Behind That Can Only Be Classified As A USO...

It would be completely crazy to think we are the only living things in the universe... I think other life forms outside of the world exist, as for this specific crash I don't have time to read up on it but I will later.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were the only DUMB mufuckas in the universe :(.

It is quite unlikely there is other life in the universe but I've always wondered if perhaps life before us may have started here on earth and moved on.
I'm reminded of the hebrew nephilim the heroes of old and the fallen giants who spawned them... All myths have a basis to say there are no UFO's is a bit silly...

It is quite unlikely there is other life in the universe but I've always wondered if perhaps life before us may have started here on earth and moved on.
I'm reminded of the hebrew nephilim the heroes of old and the fallen giants who spawned them... All myths have a basis to say there are no UFO's is a bit silly...
Why don't you think there is no other form of life in the universe?

The unlikelyhood facing the first cell for one...
The notion of violating the second law of thermodynamics multiple times is hard enough to believe doing it multiple times in multiple places is likely an impossibility.

The unlikelyhood facing the first cell for one...
The notion of violating the second law of thermodynamics multiple times is hard enough to believe doing it multiple times in multiple places is likely an impossibility.
mmmmmmmmm kay

^ He's just cynical, don't mind him.

^ He's just cynical, don't mind him.
Lol yea I know that's why I chose not to start an argument lol

"The absence of evidence is not the Evidence of absence"-Gin Rummy

Because you can't prove that something exists is the exact same thing as not being able to prove that it does exist.

really though there are a large amount of things that have been accomplished in the history of the human race.....ill give ONE example....the pyramids in egypt.....how coul dthey have built them using th emethod that was proposed involving using roller to roll them on top of one another....that is a slight possibility...but the fact that the measurements for the pyramid were less than a quarter of an inch off ....we can get into the logistics but all of the random weather ailments...not to mention a mueasurement like that in the sand with the wind blowing...the idea is barely plausible.........then again they were the first people to cut heads open and not have the patient die is pretty suspect also..........

^ He's just cynical, don't mind him.
That has nothing to do with being cynical..
There are certain probabilities that just shouldn't be considered plausible that's one of them.

The absence of evidence is not the Evidence of absence



Mathematics is the basis for all things that exist and the probabilities of certain things can be calculated as being impossible within a certain given time frame.
I don't have the capability of out right dismissing it but others probably do have those numbers...

the words of hubert yockey "Faith in the infallible and comprehensive doctrines of dialectic materialism plays a crucial role in origin of life scenarios, and especially in exobiology and its ultimate consequence, the doctrine of advanced extra-terrestrial civilization. That life must exist somewhere in the solar system or “suitable planets elsewhere” is widely and tenaciously believed in spite of lack of evidence, or even abundant evidence to the contrary "

dubbA POST...

so as we are a bout to enter a deep and profound discussion on probability and mathematics...what do u think was the probability of the human race coming to exist??.....Maybe somewhere out there this same exact discussion has taken place in a similar fashion...??
Who's to say...i know i'm not
so speaking of which.....would the superstring theory have any theoretical purpose in this conversation??....I mean being on the information theory...that would somehow have to fall along the lines of the superstring theory...being that the superstring theory would have to be a means to an end in reaching the logic of the information theory right??...According to it all particles..."i.e. me and you"...would be connecting some way,shape and/or form......so there would probably have to be an exact opposite to everything as all things have a negative ya dig..??

you know we really should break this into laymans terms for the common man...no offence to anybody who isnt familiar with the subject

Mathematics is the basis for all things that exist and the probabilities of certain things can be calculated as being impossible within a certain given time frame.
I don't have the capability of out right dismissing it but others probably do have those numbers...

the words of hubert yockey "Faith in the infallible and comprehensive doctrines of dialectic materialism plays a crucial role in origin of life scenarios, and especially in exobiology and its ultimate consequence, the doctrine of advanced extra-terrestrial civilization. That life must exist somewhere in the solar system or “suitable planets elsewhere” is widely and tenaciously believed in spite of lack of evidence, or even abundant evidence to the contrary "




Every occurence happens an infinite amount of times. Improbable, not impossible? No. In infinity, all things must occur infinitely!

Including life.

That's when you start getting into the idea of parallel dimensions and what not.

That's when you start getting into the idea of parallel dimensions and what not.


Thats what I was about to start gettin into but wat the fucc does an ex-gangbangin 17 y.o. know of theries and parallel dimensions??
lol

actually though at the end of my staement i was starting to get into that

so as we are a bout to enter a deep and profound discussion on probability and mathematics...what do u think was the probability of the human race coming to exist??....


Gross anatomy is complex but microbiology is the real problem. Part of why I am a design proponent is because we are on the brink of creating life.. but that's just a microbe consider how far the human race has come.. I think if we can't do better than a microbe it's quite obvious this is special.
Because it is so special and so rare regardless of known mathematical probability it's only logical to think this happening elsewhere is quite absurd.











so speaking of which.....would the superstring theory have any theoretical purpose in this conversation??....I mean being on the information theory...that would somehow have to fall along the lines of the superstring theory...being that the superstring theory would have to be a means to an end in reaching the logic of the information theory right??...According to it all particles..."i.e. me and you"...would be connecting some way,shape and/or form......so there would probably have to be an exact opposite to everything as all things have a negative ya dig..??



Not necessarily... You could just have an equal ammount of anti-matter to compensate for the things that exist that we are familiar with.
That doesn't however mean it's structure as living beings with a sense of humor thought/reason or any complexity.

It's a romantic thought but one that is oversold.
Space time as a fabric is understandable but trying for a theory of everything is a bit .... naive.
Yin and yang and an elegant balance has it's roots more in mysticism than science and I think people like brian greene(The author of elegant universe) are just searching for something beautiful.
My problem with them and my problem with other minds such as darwin is they all had the same goal...

Seeing a bigger picture with wonderful plot lines and epic happenings in our everyday surrounds that make the physical world around us beautfiul...
Unfortunately reality holds that while you can see a great deal of order in the universe there are no goals in mind.
No tournaments of purposeful survival, it's more like selfish trench warfare.. no neatly woven fabric it isn't even a perfect shape or anything


I think God's a joker and it's obvious to me when I look around this is entertainment..

There are also inconsistancies, I question whether this isn't his half assed day dream we're living...

Every occurence happens an infinite amount of times.


What are you a fucking buddhist? Infinite causes is utterly retarded.
There is no evidence to support that view again it's a romantic thought but it's not empirical.

^ No, but to believe anything otherwise would be a contradiction of ACTUAL infinity.

^ No, but to believe anything otherwise would be a contradiction of ACTUAL infinity.
Infinity is a made up concept.. like the tooth fairy.
Nothingness has an end point and one day we'll find it. No other dimensions no hidden omniverse full of infinite possibilities just a nice big white strip with the words YOU ACTUALLY CAME THIS FAR YOU LOSERS.

IF it says that when i die...ill consider my excistence worthwhile lol

^ The absence of existence is still something.

Not necessarily. To say that is to assume the laws of physics apply beyond the self contained universe we have seen.
Suppose this nothingness exists with no void or is a logical contradiction.. It's not like we're anywhere near venturing that far but you never know.
There could be an end to EVERYTHING!
And I wish I was going to be the man to find that...

An end in what exactly?

By saying there is a limit to everything, you're implying we're contained in something!

I can understand voids of space that have yet to be filled with actual matter...but to say there is a stop sign at the end of the universe is just ridiculous. And if there is some magical white border around the universe...what is beyond that? Something has to be, even if it is just blankness. Nothing is something.

i believe there are aliens out there and they think of humans as the same way we think of aliens, they probably laugh at aliens who say "yeah i think humans exist" and think humans are scary looking

but yeah i just wish i could have been born atleast 100 years later, i wonder what we would have invented and found out by then

because think of the people who were alive in 1905 for example, they would have never imagined something like a ipod or a jumbo jet being invented, and technology is moving along pretty quick these days

there's no such thing as a void, illusions, aliens are possible, that's sufficient to know

And if there is some magical white border around the universe...what is beyond that? Something has to be, even if it is just blankness. Nothing is something.

That's what I want to know. :(

only really deluded person would think that there's no life in the universe, universe itself is alive, you can find consciousness in every aspect of the matter, there are no borders in the universe, there's only universe, borders are terms of space and dimension, space (or time) is experienced only from a narrow perspective

only really deluded person would think that there's no life in the universe, universe itself is alive, you can find consciousness in every aspect of the matter, there are no borders in the universe, there's only universe, borders are terms of space and dimension, space (or time) is experienced only from a narrow perspective
Exactly what I was trying to say, you just worded it better.

see if only bill o'reily could see this conversation....;RAPPER ARE SMART PEOPLE JACKASS!!

Who the fuck cares, we're all going to die in 2012 anyways.

Yea man they're watching us for sure aliens or the government perhaps both?
although the Nazi's did invent the idea of a flying saucer cause the americans
were cutting off their air fields and later on russia acquired these plans
and told everybody else that shit was gone so yea russians are watching us.

This is true...

No we're not mulder

That's what I want to know. :(


I do believe that there is something either within or beyond the milky way galaxy... You guys have to understand that there is more than just our solar system & more than just our galaxy.

I do believe that there is something either within or beyond the milky way galaxy... You guys have to understand that there is more than just our solar system & more than just our galaxy.

Obviously there is more than one galaxy lol. Everyne knows that there is millions of galaxies at least.

There is also the possibilty of a multiverse.

yeah our universe could be a spec of sand on a beach on another planet lmao

..

..I won't admit that aliens exist..

..I believe UFOs exist because of a lack of knowledge and perspective..

..Our universe is inside of a Black Hole, maybe..

..If aliens existed in any system close to ours (and have been visiting), we would've been made slaves or human firewood a long time ago. They wouldn't be here observing us. Resources, people. That's why competition exists..

..AlphaOmega, though I respect your level of intellect, I find it hard to willingly agree with you at times. I especially didn't like the way you referred to Buddhism. That's a philosophy I take seriously and it seems easy for someone who doesn't believe in it to say what they want in any disrespectful fashion they choose. With that aside, Mr. Witten, can you please provide me with some credible documentation, links, or dissertations that support the Infinity is a made-up concept argument? Also, about your initial statement about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, if evolution doesn't violate the Law (given the amount of time that elapses), why would we assume that a 13.7 Billion year old Universe can't follow a similar trend. I'm not being facetious, I'm just inquisitive..

~1

I'm aware that the flying saucer thing is possibly an invention of the powers that be to account for 'sightings' of strange machinery and such.

If i met an alien i'd shout him shrooms or acid, get him on the buzz.

man i dont know what i belive.. half of me thinks yea maybe. our sun and planet are prefeclty apart to keep life but this can be the only sun out there and only eart far enough to produce life.. but then the other half of me is like well fuck we got all this techonlgy and still cant find it yet? or they aint found us yet?

\and if they landed here why keep it a secrect unless they trye dto hurt us already.. i dont know all i know is if fucking ET comes down starting shit i got a 40cal sigma and a G3k 36 with boxxes of ammo ready for him and his freinds and if comes down with peace and wants to help us and be freinds shit im cool with that too. i need my car paided off he can transfer some money to my account and help me...

how the fucc does Skull know we're gonna die
this some kinda end all be all theory i haven't heard of yet??

Yeh the doomsday 2012 bulltshit

can u explain this to me to some extent so i get where you're coming from??

^ It's some ridiculous Mayan prophecy, or so they say. Google it.

ill find the link to where i read it

http://www.hiphopsphere.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7134


My response;

well everyone has their own beliefs and opinions, personally i don't believe in god as a single entity but more the 'essence' type view..to me, earth=god..the world itself is god..not some guy playing poker in the clouds, deciding what hands to lay down or play..everyone is different..i think the bible is a crock of shit(personally), derived and created by a bunch of hippy/stoners/pissheads who had 2 much time on their hands..some of it might be insightful and prophetic but for the most part is illogical and unbelievable

As far as 'doomsday' is concerned..this is the type of stuff i read over and forget about 2mins later..the fact some people base their lives off this type of shit scares me more then the actual 'threat' or 'possibility' of such a thing happening..if anyones going to destroy the planet, it will be us..through our differences, ignorance and power struggle ect

Im the type of person who doesn't believe something till i see it or experience it first hand..so if it happens it happens..if it doesn't then i guess the few people in their basement designing portals to new galaxies while wearing the replica Spock ears and attire aren't going to be to happy

An end in what exactly?

By saying there is a limit to everything, you're implying we're contained in something!


.... We are.. our universe.. and beyond it is nothing. No void because it takes surrounding matter to make a void/space just nothing.
And if you'd like to prove me wrong by all means do so but if you have no proof what are you arguing over? Does it upset you to think there is an end ?













I can understand voids of space that have yet to be filled with actual matter...but to say there is a stop sign at the end of the universe is just ridiculous.




I'm sorry but ridiculous is asserting an omniverse, there is no empirical evidence to support that claim. Though the universe expands it is made up of physical matter(something) what it expands through is absolutely nothing...


Someone asked Stephen Hawking once what was beyond the Universe and he gave my favorite reply "That's like asking what's north of the north pole"

The universe is self contained and that membrane while expanding is what governs the laws of natural order. Everything that is is in that membrane, that shell. Beyond it is nothing, there is no beyond it if that helps...

Isn't it nice to know you can only go so far and no further? Isn't it nice to know the students cannot surpass the master? :D

^^sorry...u just got sonned breeze(happens to the best of us..unless ur Omen...then its ALL the time) lmao.....at least it shows all ppl who are fans of rap aren't unitelligent

only really deluded person would think that there's no life in the universe, universe itself is alive, you can find consciousness in every aspect of the matter,

No but human beings certainly like to pretend.
We are fond of thinking of ourselfs as the center of everything...
We watch the galaxies spread farther and farther apart, stars fizzle out... getting colder and colder some go out with a bang though ... Most just die out. Then of course there are black holes... much like the disasters we face they can pop up seemingly in an instant engulfing everything around them...
Never will the information they took be seen again..

We share an experience with all matter but only we are conscious of it.
The experience that we share is entropy all systems disorder, all things break away. All glory is fleeting, all beauty is fading and the universe is on a decline but that decline itself is never ending.

As the universe expands the original gem that was the primeval atom is a distant thing we will never really comprehend in beauty.
Can you imagine all the galaxies all matter being contained within something that is miniscule even next to a grain of sand?

The only thing we are left with is a view of ourselves and all life for that matter being washed away... to pure nothingness and overwhelming feeling of drifting... I like to believe we live on but not in our physical form... There may be consciousness beyond us but certainly the quark is not going to answer my questions..

Just as the sun will not recite for me an opera,(good thing considering space is a soundless vaccum.. Makes you wonder what the fuck all those noises in the star wars movies were) the grass is always growing just like we are always reproducing but unfortunately as our resources deplete eventually so will the population.

And when the milky way and andromeda do their dance and eventually merge to the master's tune which was set in place to be played at the beginning of time, it is likely everything we ever knew will cease to be and change. Perhaps life will start a new? Does it really matter? Eventually conditions will be such life will be whiped out everywhere.

In my dreams sometimes I see myself asleep.. No emotion on my face sinking down in the darkest dephs. No light, no fish, nothing just darkness... Stars will be gone at some point as they will have no resources to burn then my dreams will become the reality all matter and all life will know.

i fucked an alien in the ass, and she thought i had beef and shot and missed me with her laser gun, so i jet lee'd her alien ass and all her little homies and they flew away, i basically saved earth single handedly

That'll be crazy

No but human beings certainly like to pretend. We are fond of thinking of ourselfs as the center of everything...

''every schmo has a fantasy that the universe revolves around them, but for us this isn't a fantasy it's a reality'' - L'roneous - Imaginarium, I mostly agree with that, considering what quantum physics has proven

We share an experience with all matter but only we are conscious of it.

you've heard of the Hado effect, I think it works both ways. Are you familiar with the beliefs of David Bohm?

The experience that we share is entropy all systems disorder, all things break away. All glory is fleeting, all beauty is fading and the universe is on a decline but that decline itself is never ending. As the universe expands the original gem that was the primeval atom is a distant thing we will never really comprehend in beauty. Can you imagine all the galaxies all matter being contained within something that is miniscule even next to a grain of sand?

you base too much on the second law of thermodynamics, that law only partially describes what's happening, where's the law in the primeval gem?
laws are changeable, they just patterns, ''memory'' how the universe works.
You've heard of Mandelbrot's fractal or fractal attractors of chaos (point, circle, torus and special ...), you speak of particles, they're just focal
points in the sea of frequencies, created by our observation, the false concept of inertia, vortexes of energy. You're familiar with the torsion/scalar waves?

The only thing we are left with is a view of ourselves and all life for that matter being washed away... to pure nothingness and overwhelming feeling of drifting... I like to believe we live on but not in our physical form... There may be consciousness beyond us but certainly the quark is not going to answer my questions..

you speak how you're separated from the universe, quark is a tip of infinite iceberg of illusions, and again you speak of terms of time/space like they're ultimate

In my dreams sometimes I see myself asleep.. No emotion on my face sinking down in the darkest dephs. No light, no fish, nothing just darkness... Stars will be gone at some point as they will have no resources to burn then my dreams will become the reality all matter and all life will know.

energy can be depleted? that's not really darkness what you see

how the fucc does Skull know we're gonna die
this some kinda end all be all theory i haven't heard of yet??

Yeh the doomsday 2012 bulltshit

can u explain this to me to some extent so i get where you're coming from??

that's just a ''new age'' propaganda, new age is a religion, just like any other religion it was artificially created by the ''negative elite'' or whatever you want to call the groups that want social control. It is similar to theosophical societies that like to take scraps of other old religions/ritualistic traditions/illusions and put them together. Probably new age is a stepping stone to the creation of one world religion, but it is in prototype stages right now, like the Christianity once was. In short at the moment they believe that in 2012 an alien fleet will arrive
to save the ''enlightened'' new agers from the cataclysm.

They back this up with the end of the Mayan long count calendar (21.12.2012., the age that started on 11.8.3114. BC) which predicted the end of the world (so they interpret, most likely this is a natural process, Mayans called this the birth of the fifth Sun). Mayans were excellent mathematicians, you can find hidden mathematical order in every aspect of the universe (13:20 in the Long count calendar, 13:21 would represent true Fibonacci ratio, or the golden mean), today science calls these ''sacred'' ratios fractals. So these Suns are cycles of the Earth/Solar System/galaxy.

Other stuff they claim that backs up 2012 and it doesn't necessarily have to be related to new age:

predictions of Edgar Cayce (very trustworthy prophet, with thousands of accurate ''readings'', but he actually predicted the change in 1998 so they stretch it out)

appearance of the crop circles that represent fractals

timeline found in the King's chamber of the Great pyramid of Giza

Auric timescale (I can't explain in a thread, look it up if you're interested)

mathematical fractal function derived from the I Ching

the precession, end of the 25920 year cycle of Earth

so called great celestial conjunction of Earth with the galactic equator

global warming in the solar system:

• Uranus and Neptune - polar shifts
• A change in the intensity and brightness of Neptune by 40%
• Doubling of the magnetic field of Jupiter
• Brightness increase in Saturn
• A growth of the dark spots on Pluto
• Auroras on Saturn
• Venus is showing reversals of areas of dark and light and is becoming
brighter overall
• The moon is growing a sodium potassium atmosphere
• 200% growth of the atmosphere of Mars that is getting thicker.
• Dramatic climate changes on Mars such as the melting of the ice caps
• An increase in the Sun’s solar activities (solar flares)
• A growth of the heliosphere (magnetic field of the Sun) by a 1000% and increasing
• number of earthquakes on Earth since 1973 has increased by 400%, number of natural disasters like tornado's, hurricanes, mud slides etc. has increased by 410 % between 1963 and 1993
• increase of gamma ray bursts, explosions of the neutron stars, believed to be the cause of the Indian ocean tsunami by La Violette
• heating of the ocean caused by the changes in the Earth's magnetic field

you've heard of the Hado effect, I think it works both ways. Are you familiar with the beliefs of David Bohm?


Spiritualistic garbage disguised as science, and no I'm not familiar with anything related to a David Bohm.



you base too much on the second law of thermodynamics, that law only partially describes what's happening, where's the law in the primeval gem?
laws are changeable, they just patterns,


The laws of physics don't apply pre-big bang much like the person I kept trying to correct yesterday, Questions regarding the origin of origins are pseudo questions. They require no answer as none of the laws and parameters of physical reality applied pre-big bang.

It was that primeval atom the put those laws in place.


You've heard of Mandelbrot's fractal or fractal attractors of chaos (point, circle, torus and special ...), you speak of particles, they're just focal
points in the sea of frequencies, created by our observation, the false concept of inertia, vortexes of energy. You're familiar with the torsion/scalar waves?



AHH Abstract mathematics and visualizations I don't want to get into lol.





you speak how you're separated from the universe, quark is a tip of infinite iceberg of illusions, and again you speak of terms of time/space like they're ultimate

.... I've never personally seen a quasar I don't doubt their existence though...



They are... time is not negotiable it is a force in nature and only irrational/ignorant people claim otherwise.


energy can be depleted? that's not really darkness what you see

Take away every star in the night sky and tell me would you think of it as still very bright?




that's just a ''new age'' propaganda, new age is a religion,




Propaganda? What are you suggesting ?
I am not a part of any new age religion infact mine dates back to the bronze age.

just like any other religion it was artificially created by the ''negative elite'' or whatever you want to call the groups that want social control




.... What? I don't belong to a negative elite and I don't want social control.
Look all systems disorder there are no exceptions that have been observed there is no reason for you to think otherwise.

I think people are just in a habbit of calling things negative here.

It's like unpleasentness just eats at you people..

. It is similar to theosophical societies that like to take scraps of other old religions/ritualistic traditions/illusions and put them together. Probably new age is a stepping stone to the creation of one world religion, but it is in prototype stages right now, like the Christianity once was. In short at the moment they believe that in 2012 an alien fleet will arrive
to save the ''enlightened'' new agers from the cataclysm.

They back this up with the end of the Mayan long count calendar (21.12.2012., the age that started on 11.8.3114. BC) which predicted the end of the world (so they interpret, most likely this is a natural process, Mayans called this the birth of the fifth Sun). Mayans were excellent mathematicians, you can find hidden mathematical order in every aspect of the universe (13:20 in the Long count calendar, 13:21 would represent true Fibonacci ratio, or the golden mean), today science calls these ''sacred'' ratios fractals. So these Suns are cycles of the Earth/Solar System/galaxy.





Wha? ... are you claiming physics is a religious practice?
No one fucking cares about the 2012 thing... Sorry but you seem to have a bad habbit of labeling things.


I mean it's one thing to disagree it's another to throw insults..

Thermo dynamics space time those are not religious concepts mathematics isn't really religious.. I mean I guess you can use math to back a religion but I don't see why religious people can't use facts to back their faith..
Saying they can't sounds like you have a bitter spot for people of faith.. in which case you probably have some closet beliefs of your own.

Spiritualistic garbage disguised as science, and no I'm not familiar with anything related to a David Bohm.

series of scientific experiments have proven that it works, have you noticed something irregular in the experiment or you automatically declare things like that as spiritualistic garbage cause it doesn't fit your materialistic views, 19th
century Newtonian view fit with a few, selectable modern thoughts that can be explained by it, mostly astronomical.

David Bohm was a quantum physicist, nothing to do with spiritualism


The laws of physics don't apply pre-big bang much like the person I kept trying to correct yesterday, Questions regarding the origin of origins are pseudo questions. They require no answer as none of the laws and parameters of physical reality applied pre-big bang.

It was that primeval atom the put those laws in place.

I think that's contradictory and incomplete, not to mention the tired light effect

AHH Abstract mathematics and visualizations I don't want to get into lol.

why?

.... I've never personally seen a quasar I don't doubt their existence though...

why, again you select what you believe, adapting to social norms, yet many people lie or are deluded or are pressured to adapt their discoveries

They are... time is not negotiable it is a force in nature and only irrational/ignorant people claim otherwise.

it's not negotiable that it exists, but that's very limited, what about the experiences of timelessness, yea spiritualistic garbage

Take away every star in the night sky and tell me would you think of it as still very bright?

what if entire universe was a star, would that be bright? yes and no

Propaganda? What are you suggesting ?
I am not a part of any new age religion infact mine dates back to the bronze age.

this part wasn't related to your post, it was about 2012 shit, how does your bronze age religion work with entropy?


.... What? I don't belong to a negative elite and I don't want social control.
Look all systems disorder there are no exceptions that have been observed there is no reason for you to think otherwise.

I think people are just in a habbit of calling things negative here.

It's like unpleasentness just eats at you people..

I mean it's one thing to disagree it's another to throw insults..

this wasn't directed at you, I simply posted what these people believe cause someone asked about it

I apologize for the disorder

Wha? ... are you claiming physics is a religious practice?
No one fucking cares about the 2012 thing... Sorry but you seem to have a bad habbit of labeling things.

everything is physics

Thermo dynamics space time those are not religious concepts mathematics isn't really religious.. I mean I guess you can use math to back a religion but I don't see why religious people can't use facts to back their faith.. Saying they can't sounds like you have a bitter spot for people of faith.. in which case you probably have some closet beliefs of your own.

I'm not religious at all, not in a way you think of religion

I forgot to mention

you think that cause your religion traces origins from the bronze age that it's somehow closer to the truth, superior to other, but your religion is much more the product of an iron age

unpleasantness, lol, I'm always in a pleasant state

series of scientific experiments have proven that it works, have you noticed something irregular in the experiment or you automatically declare things like that as spiritualistic garbage cause it doesn't fit your materialistic views, 19th
century Newtonian view fit with a few, selectable modern thoughts that can be explained by it,



... Materialistic? I am not materialistic if I was I would be an atheist one cannot be a materialist and a christian at the same time and I get the feeling those words you are using are propaganda pushed out but pseudoscientific web boards. Ones who spend time speculating about random occurances and weird happenings as being evidence of the spiritual.


Has nothing to do with me being materialistic and everything to do with your searching for something beautiful.
There is nothing beautiful stop standing in awe before something with such a limited existence.








David Bohm was a quantum physicist, nothing to do with spiritualism

I said I didn't know anything about him I was just commenting on the hado effect.
www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/



I think that's contradictory and incomplete, not to mention the tired light effect

Wha? pre-bigbang there could not have been natural order.
You cannot profess belief in a universe the spatio-temporal realm and in the same breath utter that before it had formed the laws which it governs applied.

Sorry but just no....
That's kind of common sense dude.
The only thing contradictory here seems to be on your end not mine.




why?

.... I fucking hate anything even remotely related to geometry I got beef with it leave it be lol...
Visualizing things is not a strength of mine. As someone with aspergers syndrome I can do most forms of math no problem but fucka geometry I got my only B- in geometry ....

AND I STILL HOLD A GRUDGE !!! ok not really but still wasn't pleasent lol


why, again you select what you believe, adapting to social norms, yet many people lie or are deluded or are pressured to adapt their discoveries


Because of the body of evidence regarding them is much stronger than that garbage you tried to push toward the beginning.




it's not negotiable that it exists, but that's very limited, what about the experiences of timelessness, yea spiritualistic garbage

Pretty much if it isn't empirical it just doesn't mean much to me.



this part wasn't related to your post, it was about 2012 shit, how does your bronze age religion work with entropy?



Quite well.
Things go down hill in the bible after the days of creation much like the universe is on a decline.

Psalms in particular has passages relating to thermodynamics where during the time of creation things were at their most glorious.

I see entropy not just as a fundemental law of physics but as a sort of greater truth.

I forgot to mention

you think that cause your religion traces origins from the bronze age that it's somehow closer to the truth, superior to other, but your religion is much more the product of an iron age


? Superiorty ? what are you talking about? I thought you were saying I was part of some new age religion relating to some 2012 mayan prophecy, I was just pointing out mine is much older. I don't care how much older it is that has nothing to do with it.

... Materialistic? I am not materialistic if I was I would be an atheist one cannot be a materialist and a christian at the same time and I get the feeling those words you are using are propaganda pushed out but pseudoscientific web boards. Ones who spend time speculating about random occurances and weird happenings as being evidence of the spiritual.

Christian, that's not bronze age, I thought you were a Jew, doesn't matter, anyway

this is the only web board that I'm on, if you want, I'll post some referent books, nothing pseudo/random miracle there

Has nothing to do with me being materialistic and everything to do with your searching for something beautiful.I was once searching for a purpose, searching, lol, I see ''beautiful'' everywhere

There is nothing beautiful stop standing in awe before something with such a limited existence.it's just one point of view, I'm aware of the limitations of certain existences, they can be surpassed (yea you don't believe that, so in that way it works for
you)

Wha? pre-bigbang there could not have been natural order.
You cannot profess belief in a universe the spatio-temporal realm and in the same breath utter that before it had formed the laws which it governs applied.

Sorry but just no....
That's kind of common sense dude.
The only thing contradictory here seems to be on your end not mine.ok, I see that we have a very different understanding about this matter, it's good to see the other point

.... I fucking hate anything even remotely related to geometry I got beef with it leave it be lol...
Visualizing things is not a strength of mine. As someone with aspergers syndrome I can do most forms of math no problem but fucka geometry I got my only B- in geometry ....

AND I STILL HOLD A GRUDGE !!! ok not really but still wasn't pleasent lolwell, you think that mystery schools deal with geometry for nothing (just look at any ancient sacred structure, it had a purpose not only aesthetic). In it you can find much simpler answers about the nature of the universe, stuff like platonic solids or ratios like phi.

visualization is really powerful (and dangerous), so that it can modify reality, but you don't believe that ...

Because of the body of evidence regarding them is much stronger than that garbage you tried to push toward the beginning.so I'm fantasizing really, lol, there are other evidences and interpretations

Pretty much if it isn't empirical it just doesn't mean much to me.yet senses are so flawed, controlled by the subconscious mind

Quite well.
Things go down hill in the bible after the days of creation much like the universe is on a decline.

what about the end of the Bible, where's entropy?

Psalms in particular has passages relating to thermodynamics where during the time of creation things were at their most glorious.don't know, read 3-4 psalms so far

I see entropy not just as a fundemental law of physics but as a sort of greater truth.well I see entropy as a tiny bit of the truth

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Haven't you ever seen American Beauty?