Let me start off by saying that when I say "South Hip Hop", I am not condemning the entire southern portion of the US. I am merely classing this whack shit we see on TV as "South Hip Hop" because the majority of it comes from the southern portion of the US. Duh! I understand that acts like Little Brother, Outkast and this K-Rino dude are all spitting some relevant shit. Now on to the issue.

"When I'm in the club, I don't wanna hear no MF Doom. I'd much rather be dancing to a Lil Jon beat."

This defense doesn't work anymore. For two reasons:
If what you say is true, then why the fuck do rappers even bother rapping on tracks? Why not let your whack producers drop their own albums? And I suppose if rappers did stop rapping altogether, we wouldn't have anything to complain about. Right?

Well, no. Wrong.

You see, in my humble opinion, the decline of hip hop these days has more to do with the state of today's beats than to do with the lyrics fallin' out between the domes of these whack rappers. And in this case I agree with the mainstream enthusiasts, that a beat can salvage any amount of whack lyrics. The problem though is this. People act like a beat that's hot to them will automatically be hot to everybody else. But seriously, I'd rather listen to Madlib, Dilla, Pete Rock, Prince Paul or RZA than to Lil' Jon or these other shitty producers ushered in with the advent of Fruity Loops any day.

And you know what kind of beats I'm talking about. I could get technical on your asses if you want me to but suffice it to say that I'm speaking specifically of those drum-dominated, minimalist beats that rappers like Paul Wall, TI and Young Jeezy are so fond of. You see the difference between today's beats and those of yesterday is style. Everybody had a recognizable style back then. You can easily pick out a Primo or RZA beat in a matter of seconds. All the shit today sounds the same.

My conclusion then, is that though you may like your club beats, you are forgetting one vital thing. Like rappers, people have different tastes in producers and in order to bring hip hop back to this "golden era" we always talk about, we can't neglect the beats. And I don't wanna hear that shit about "you can't dance to MF Doom". Hell yes I can! You should see me fucking Wildn' out in my bedroom! Lol. Anybody can dance to a song as long as its 4/4 time (all hip hop songs are).

And as a footnote, I should mention that I don't hate Fruity Loops. It's just that a lot of producers take advantage of the fact that it's really easy to slap a beat together on there. Decoy, I still think you've got skills.

I'd like to hear everybody else's thoughts.

i can definately agree with everything u said.
just pisses me off these days i got some friends at school who love "hip hop"
when im in their car there always like yo, u wanna hear a dope song?
i was like aight
they bump like some hurting jeezy just cause of the beat and say it bumps at dances/clubs n shit saying that its good rap.
raps more then that man, they come in my car im bumping like JMT, reef the lost cauze or something there always like wtf is this shit
just kinda makes me mad how muchmusic/mtv is showing these whackass rappers wat "rap" is or what they think its suppost to be.
all music is falling off these days

Plug Zer0 school these fuckers.I agree with you.

MAYNE, every site, every forum site, is gonna have cats that is feelin that shit, so imo WHY the fuck start disliking the next man for NOT listenin to the same shit as you? If that person listens to Lil Jon, thats him, if you listen to MF Doom, thats you......I cant change what a dude listens to, all I can do is just stick to what music I give a shit about....Ill listen to it all, no matter wtf it comes from or is, as long as its cool to me.....I dont give a damn about whats out, or what is hot, whatevers goin on with the music on the mainstream is somethin WE ALL dont have no control over, whether it being the south's mainstream floodin the market these days.........So your left to deal with it.....To me, you should just enjoy what you like, because honestly, when I see some of these threads on the 'hiphop is dead' talk, it just makes me think that ppl care too much about music they dont have no control over......Like the other thread I made defending the south, I will say this, I know that snap shit is the most generic shit on the market, but WTF do you expect from it? its a club music, it makes money for that shit, and the entertainment industry is all that matters and is a fun music designed for the youngins.....I cant control the spins that shit gets per day (tho this music is dying out as of now), but it is what it is.....And LiL jon screaming 'get crunk' is no different than 'Raise your hands in the air', lets be real here.....

There is nothing wrong with 'bling bling' or 'stay fly' music, they are part of the balance in hiphop.....ANd im tellin you, if ALL hiphop sounded like Talib Kweli, where would the Young Jeezy's, TI's of rap be for actual hood ppl to actually relate to? I see nothing wrong with it, other than the fact everyone who wants to be a rapper is rapping about that shit to get a deal, and dont really share no life of no gangsta, thug, hustler, or none of that shit.....Now THATS some bullshit.......I dont mind that shit, but that isnt what a dude should think rap is JUST all about or limited to......And yo, what Young Jeezy says about the hood, crack, and struggle is no less authentic than what Common or One Be Lo says about that shit, and you can quote me on that.......Jeezy, ISNT for the clubs, he admitted on interview he makes shit for the streets.......Thug Motivation 101 didnt have no club bangers, no songs about woman, just an album about selling dope and hustling mainly and survivin thru the ghetto and was actually a good album, at least imo.....His lyrics were average, but he was saying something.....

Im all for more originality bein brought back to the game, but at the same time, there CANT be just a hiphop music of all Talib Kweli's and Commons, theres gotta be a music for everybody, but when theres too much of one music, thats where it becomes a prob.......Its like good and evil, you cant have good without evil.....

U understand what im saying?

JMT is the fuckin BOMB

Alot of ppl need to stop listenin to club banga's and callin em real hip hop

my question is the bandwagon approach. "if (insert amount of album sales) people like it, it cant suck, so you should respect it." millions of people voted for george bush, doesnt mean i should respect it.

my question is the bandwagon approach. "if (insert amount of album sales) people like it, it cant suck, so you should respect it." millions of people voted for george bush, doesnt mean i should respect it.

Im goin to quote I.T.

"so if your message ain't shit, fuck the records you sold
cuz if you go platinum, it's got nothing to do with luck
it just means that a million people are stupid as fuck"

group like GUnit attacts 5 year olds and 10 year olds who dont UNDERSTAND shit they say, they just like it cuase its the "in" thing... record sales dont mean shit... I love that IT quote

MAYNE, every site, every forum site, is gonna have cats that is feelin that shit, so imo WHY the fuck start disliking the next man for NOT listenin to the same shit as you? If that person listens to Lil Jon, thats him, if you listen to MF Doom, thats you......I cant change what a dude listens to, all I can do is just stick to what music I give a shit about....Ill listen to it all, no matter wtf it comes from or is, as long as its cool to me.....I dont give a damn about whats out, or what is hot, whatevers goin on with the music on the mainstream is somethin WE ALL dont have no control over, whether it being the south's mainstream floodin the market these days.........So your left to deal with it.....To me, you should just enjoy what you like, because honestly, when I see some of these threads on the 'hiphop is dead' talk, it just makes me think that ppl care too much about music they dont have no control over......Like the other thread I made defending the south, I will say this, I know that snap shit is the most generic shit on the market, but WTF do you expect from it? its a club music, it makes money for that shit, and the entertainment industry is all that matters and is a fun music designed for the youngins.....I cant control the spins that shit gets per day (tho this music is dying out as of now), but it is what it is.....And LiL jon screaming 'get crunk' is no different than 'Raise your hands in the air', lets be real here.....

There is nothing wrong with 'bling bling' or 'stay fly' music, they are part of the balance in hiphop.....ANd im tellin you, if ALL hiphop sounded like Talib Kweli, where would the Young Jeezy's, TI's of rap be for actual hood ppl to actually relate to? I see nothing wrong with it, other than the fact everyone who wants to be a rapper is rapping about that shit to get a deal, and dont really share no life of no gangsta, thug, hustler, or none of that shit.....Now THATS some bullshit.......I dont mind that shit, but that isnt what a dude should think rap is JUST all about or limited to......And yo, what Young Jeezy says about the hood, crack, and struggle is no less authentic than what Common or One Be Lo says about that shit, and you can quote me on that.......Jeezy, ISNT for the clubs, he admitted on interview he makes shit for the streets.......Thug Motivation 101 didnt have no club bangers, no songs about woman, just an album about selling dope and hustling mainly and survivin thru the ghetto and was actually a good album, at least imo.....His lyrics were average, but he was saying something.....

Im all for more originality bein brought back to the game, but at the same time, there CANT be just a hiphop music of all Talib Kweli's and Commons, theres gotta be a music for everybody, but when theres too much of one music, thats where it becomes a prob.......Its like good and evil, you cant have good without evil.....

U understand what im saying?






Definitely. I understand what you're saying. You may have missed my point though. It's when people say that Crunk music has its purpose in Hip Hop, to get parties and clubs across the globe to go fucking nuts. Alright. Makes sense. However, I'm saying with all honesty that I don't even like those beats, and I find so many other underground, or golden era beats more danceable. Seriously. And by that logic, Crunk music and snap music or what have you, have no merits. There's absolutely nothing to show for that music in my opinion.

I appreciate your points though and I agree with a lot of them. I am a fan of select mainstream artists. Kanye and Dip Set in particular.

@ Overskill... I know what you mean. My friend, whose a complete idiot lol, said "yo, you gotta listen to this mix CD I made." Then he follows up with, "I don't really care about the lyrics but the beats are really good".

and I couldn't have disagreed more with him. Though they were your traditional "club bangers", I still couldn't stand them, all lyrics aside. They sounded much too plasticy, if you know what I mean.

I know most mainstream music is wack and i hate to listen to it when i'm at home or whatever, but i gotta admit i do like to hear stuff like lil jon when i'm in a club, because essentially it is dance music. Now don't get me wrong theres a limit i can't stand any d4l or Jibbs where ever i am and a lot of stuff from the likes of g unit does my head in but a decent beat is always good to dance to. I mean come on can you honestly say you wanna dance to the rythm of IT telling you about corruption and 9/11, obviously you don't. Hip hop is for listening to, crunk or whatever you call it nowadays snap or whatever it is, is made for dancing to not listening. Simple answer don't listen to it outside of clubs. If your friends like it then thats them, they like dance music, you like hip hop, you don't expect everyone to be the same ?

yeah but here in society its not distingueshed as crunk and hip hop, gunit aint hip hop but thats how thier labeled... feel me

Let me start off by saying that when I say "South Hip Hop", I am not condemning the entire southern portion of the US. I am merely classing this whack shit we see on TV as "South Hip Hop" because the majority of it comes from the southern portion of the US. Duh! I understand that acts like Little Brother, Outkast and this K-Rino dude are all spitting some relevant shit. Now on to the issue.

"When I'm in the club, I don't wanna hear no MF Doom. I'd much rather be dancing to a Lil Jon beat."

This defense doesn't work anymore. For two reasons:
If what you say is true, then why the fuck do rappers even bother rapping on tracks? Why not let your whack producers drop their own albums? And I suppose if rappers did stop rapping altogether, we wouldn't have anything to complain about. Right?

Well, no. Wrong.

You see, in my humble opinion, the decline of hip hop these days has more to do with the state of today's beats than to do with the lyrics fallin' out between the domes of these whack rappers. And in this case I agree with the mainstream enthusiasts, that a beat can salvage any amount of whack lyrics. The problem though is this. People act like a beat that's hot to them will automatically be hot to everybody else. But seriously, I'd rather listen to Madlib, Dilla, Pete Rock, Prince Paul or RZA than to Lil' Jon or these other shitty producers ushered in with the advent of Fruity Loops any day.

And you know what kind of beats I'm talking about. I could get technical on your asses if you want me to but suffice it to say that I'm speaking specifically of those drum-dominated, minimalist beats that rappers like Paul Wall, TI and Young Jeezy are so fond of. You see the difference between today's beats and those of yesterday is style. Everybody had a recognizable style back then. You can easily pick out a Primo or RZA beat in a matter of seconds. All the shit today sounds the same.

My conclusion then, is that though you may like your club beats, you are forgetting one vital thing. Like rappers, people have different tastes in producers and in order to bring hip hop back to this "golden era" we always talk about, we can't neglect the beats. And I don't wanna hear that shit about "you can't dance to MF Doom". Hell yes I can! You should see me fucking Wildn' out in my bedroom! Lol. Anybody can dance to a song as long as its 4/4 time (all hip hop songs are).

And as a footnote, I should mention that I don't hate Fruity Loops. It's just that a lot of producers take advantage of the fact that it's really easy to slap a beat together on there. Decoy, I still think you've got skills.

I'd like to hear everybody else's thoughts.

Agree on everything except the timming. I've made a couple of songs with really weird drums and timming. :)